Jandira speaks out about Fraga's aggression.

No Farofafa website.

(…) Congresswoman Jandira Feghali, known to FAROFAFÁ for her parliamentary activism related to Brazilian music, culture, and human rights, takes advantage of the opportunity presented by phone regarding the unacceptable events in the “house of the people” to try to help us decipher what the hell is happening to Brazil.

Pedro Alexandre Sanches: I would like you to recount exactly what happened yesterday in the plenary session.

Jandira Feghali: Orlando Silva was on the microphone reacting to the Força Sindical's action of throwing paper notes and asking Eduardo Cunha to investigate.

PAS: For those who haven't been following, what was the Força Sindical doing?

JF: I was throwing paper money, fake money, from up there in the Chamber's plenary hall. Orlando was on the microphone demanding that the cameras film those responsible for that aggression against the House. I don't know what he said, but Roberto Freire got offended and started hitting, slapping Orlando on the back. I was next to him, talking on the phone, and I put my arm behind Orlando to protect him, as if to say, "Don't touch him." Freire grabbed my arm and pulled hard, holding it from below. Obviously, I didn't accept it, "Don't touch me, take your arm away," and that whole crowd gathered. Then all hell broke loose, it was a terrible mess.

Then I went to the microphone and denounced what had happened. When I was saying that I was going to take the matter to the Ethics Committee, Alberto Fraga came on the microphone and said that whoever hits like a man has to be hit like a man. In other words, there are two serious things here. First, prejudice against women in politics. Second, I didn't attack anyone; on the contrary, I was attacked. He tried to turn the aggression around, as if I had attacked Freire. In the clarification note he released, he says that I was attacking Freire and that's why he went to defend Freire.

PAS: And what would it mean for a woman to act like a man, congresswoman?

JF: That's right, a woman who does politics, who is firm in her positions, who reacts, who defends, is a man. A woman's place is not in politics, not in the plenary, and not in her own defense, in her pride, in her dignity. That's his mindset regarding women. For him, a woman should be someone who stays washing clothes, in the sink, handling domestic chores. When he said that, he not only broke decorum but also made a threat of aggression. Besides, everyone here in Brasília knows Fraga's story. He's a retired colonel of the Military Police, there are accusations of links to death squads, he defends the idea of ​​deputies carrying weapons here. When the commotion ended, I asked for the floor as leader and said what I had to say. We are now initiating legal proceedings, we are going to sue Fraga. Freire went to the podium to apologize, said it wasn't intentional, that it was just a reaction.

PAS: Did he apologize only to the lady, or to Orlando as well?

JF: No, he didn't apologize to Orlando. Only to me.

PAS: Did he slap Orlando on the back? Were they hard?

JF: He was completely out of sorts, out of control. He went to the podium to apologize to me, but not to Orlando. Regarding Fraga, we got the tapes, and the lawyer is already preparing the case. We're going to file one complaint internally and another externally, one for breach of decorum and another for criminal charges related to the threat.

PAS: Wouldn't Freire also be subject to legal action?

JF: It would be possible, but let's evaluate it knowing his attitude of apologizing to me.

PAS: I wanted to take advantage of this episode to try to get you to analyze the current situation, what is happening in the Chamber and in Brazil. You said you had never experienced anything like this as a member of parliament.

JF: Never, ever. The fact that I'm the only female leader of the caucus already bothers these guys. But I've been very firm in my positions, I speak in plenary sessions, I engage in polarization with the opposition. I have a very clear attitude in my political participation as a leader here. The party gives its opinion all the time through my exercise of leadership. I say what I think and engage in polarization with the opposition at an excellent level of debate. But I expected to be the target of a political attack, not a physical one. The level of intolerance, hatred, and prejudice that society is expressing is reflected here.

PAS: And notoriously, we're also dealing with conservative and reactionary legislation.

JF: Very, very conservative. Fraga is a fascist. The legislature grew a lot under conservatism; he's part of the pro-gun lobby, in this police state we're living in. Beyond prejudice against women, he's added hatred and intolerance, which is what you see on the street and is reflected here. It's a moment where there's no more room for mediation.

PAS: Does this environment begin out here, in society, or in there, with the arrival of Eduardo Cunha?

JF: I think it's a combination. These guys also express what society outside is saying. When it talks about coups, military intervention, torture, hanging Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva on the gallows, it's a degree of intolerance and hatred that is represented here. People no longer disagree about politics with a high level of composure, serenity, and qualified arguments. They want to attack, and when the argument runs out, they want to attack.

PAS: What strongly struck me about this episode was its symbolic nature. There was an attack on a Black congressman, and another on a female congresswoman. And, to the extent that the guy says that the woman acts like a man, he's also being homophobic, as if there were a feminine behavior and a masculine behavior that couldn't coexist.

JF: As if women couldn't engage in politics with firmness. As if firmness and courage were characteristics of men. Firmness and courage have always been characteristics of women.

PAS: Black, woman, homosexual – this represents a triad of human rights – isn't this a symbolic episode that reflects an attack on human rights itself?

JF: I don't know why you're saying homophobic, I think it's a gender bias.

PAS: I mean, when Fraga says that the lady acted like a man, he's calling her a lesbian. Long live lesbians, what kind of talk is that?

JF: I understand, I understand. And there's another prejudice, because Orlando and I are from the communist party.

PAS: Roberto Freire is a former member of the Brazilian Communist Party. You and Orlando are members of the Communist Party of Brazil. They are people who, in some way, originate from the same political camp.

JF: In Fraga's case, there's also an element of hatred towards the left, towards communists.

PAS: But what about Freire's case? Why are people who came from the same field now escalating to this level of conflict?

JF: Freire's reaction is intemperate, aggressive. That's just how he is. And he came to address a woman and a black man specifically, you're right. That's a good observation.

PAS: Is this PCB, which became PPS and of which Freire is president, still a left-wing party?

JF: No, in my opinion it isn't.

PAS: And it's going to merge with the PSB, which is a socialist party (laughs). It's all very crazy, congresswoman!

JF: It's crazy, really crazy. This legislature, I tell you, you know? Actually, Ulysses Guimarães used to say that. They would ask him: "Congressman, what's going on here?" He would answer: "Wait for the next one." I've been here for six terms and every legislature is worse than the last. Because there's something called strong economic power in the election. Economic power distorts and worsens representation, more and more each time.

PAS: And how do we reconcile this with the fact that we are experiencing popular, progressive federal governments from a party of leftist origin?

JF: That's because these are different elections. Parliament and the executive branch don't operate on the same logic.

PAS: Wasn't that the case? Wasn't that supposed to happen? We weren't supposed to have a more progressive legislature?

JF: Absolutely, but in this last election the degree of polarization was very high. And the non-acceptance of the victory has a number of components, which were already present during the campaign. The level of prejudice against Dilma Rousseff is absurd too, right? There are signs at the demonstrations that personally attack her, you must have seen them.

PAS: I saw it from the inside, even covering it up. It was horrible (laughs). People bang pots and pans to silence a female president, the pot being a symbol that evokes a lot of things. Teachers are beaten, and we know that the vast majority of teachers are women. Isn't that a situation of aggression against the feminine, against women themselves, which you experienced firsthand yesterday?

JF: Exactly, no doubt about it. This is real. The worst part is some women doing this on the street.

PAS: In your opinion, why is this happening? This has turned into an abstract interview, but that's okay…

JF: It's really abstract, you have to analyze it better. Every time conservatism grows, every time these forces come out of the closet, all prejudices become more acute: against communists, against the left, against women, against black people, against gay people, because it's part of the conservative context. For many years this right wing hasn't come out of the closet of military coups, interventions, impeachments, ruptures. When conservatism grows, democracy shrinks.

PAS: So, is the conservative attitude somehow a coming out of the closet? There are people going to the streets explicitly asking for a dictatorship.

JF: Yes, exactly. When conservatism grows, it reduces the space for the democratic rule of law, and prejudice becomes very acute. Whenever democracy is threatened, prejudices increase; you can look at history. It's a context; the number of young Black people who are dying is no joke. It's a degree of prejudice and a judicialized, police-state-like environment. The democratic rule of law is threatened.

PAS: Congresswoman, in closing, #FreeJournalists we are with you, we support any action you take against the attacks. Our launch party will be on May 24th and you will receive an invitation.

JF: Oh, that's great, thank you.