Lula to 247: if he were guilty, he wouldn't look the Brazilian people in the face.

247 - On the day he concluded his caravan through the Northeast, in São Luís (MA), former president Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva gave an exclusive interview to 247, in which he took stock of the trip and also spoke about the preparation for the meeting on the 13th, with judge Sergio Moro.

"The only thing I have to offer the Brazilian people is my innocence. If I were guilty, I wouldn't have the courage to look the Brazilian people in the eye, or a 90-year-old woman who comes from far away to see me," he said in an interview with journalists Leonardo Attuch, Paulo Moreira Leite, and Leonardo Stoppa.

Regarding the court testimony, which comes right after an avalanche of affection from the Brazilian people, Lula made an ironic comment. "I hope Moro hugs me," he said. 

Below, you can find the video of the interview and also the transcript of the testimony, given on Tuesday the 5th, before Antônio Palocci's testimony:

247 – Since our time is short, Mr. President, I would like to ask for an assessment of the caravan. What was the most memorable aspect?

Squid - The caravan met my expectations when I conceived of it. First, to gauge the standard of living people are experiencing today after a period of significant social inclusion in the country. And what greatly pleased me is that, unlike those who didn't experience, receive, or participate in social policies, the humblest people in this country have a clear understanding of the purpose of each public policy we implemented. Whether it's Bolsa Família, Luz para Todos, PAA, Prouni, Pronatec... people remember it, and nobody will erase that. That's the first thing. The second thing I wanted to prove is that the mainstream media isn't as necessary as people think it is.

247 – It wasn't on the national news...

Squid - The first one I did didn't pass, and this one didn't either, and certainly many people, many people watched the caravan, participated in the caravan, shared news about the caravan, without needing the media. In other words, little by little we are showing that if the media wants to be respected, they have to be serious, very serious.

PML – I've seen several rallies, and what you always talked about was encouragement and hope. You said at one rally: 'The only thing I want to tell you is don't lose heart.' At another rally: 'I will fight until the end of my life to prove that the people can be happy.' You've done many caravans here. Why was the message of hope so important this year?

Squid - First, you didn't participate in any rallies. You participated in public demonstrations. Look, I don't think it's possible for someone to live without hope, without a dream. And I don't want the people to get discouraged. I think the people have to believe that in the same way they managed to achieve many things in the period from 2003 to 2014, they can achieve, oh, we are in a difficult moment, economic, political and so on. But this is temporary. We can raise our heads and conquer. And I think that the people of the Northeast have the willingness to continue fighting so that we keep hope alive, so that we can regain the citizenship we once had.

247 – Today, it seems that, if it were up to the public, you could assume the presidency again. How will you bring back the Brazil of your eight years in government?

Squid - I think that doing the obvious is the thing that works best in a government. That is, you have to do what needs to be done. We need to make people dream again, to make people have job prospects again, to make people have the prospect of earning a salary again, to make people have the perspective that with small economic measures we can get the so-called macroeconomy moving again.

When I was President, I used to say in debates abroad—Meirelles, Dilma, Guido, and I were there—that the Brazilian macroeconomy only worked because it had a strong microeconomy. Lots of financing, lots of credit, lots of money for social inclusion. Bolsa Família and Luz Para Todos were programs that put money directly into people's veins so they could have access to things.

Some people still say no, that Lula's economic policy was based on consumption and that we need an economic policy based on industrial development. I see this from time to time. I want to know if there will be an industrial policy if there is no consumption. In other words, any industrial investment assumes that the people will consume the product produced. Therefore, the two things go hand in hand.

247 – To avoid straying from the journey, what were the most exciting moments you witnessed during these 20 days?

Squid - One of the most moving things for me this morning here in the building, I was going downstairs and there was a doctor who said to me: 'Look, Mr. President, I wanted to tell you that I am a doctor and before you came to power I issued medical certificates for children who died of hunger, and during your government I never issued a certificate for a child who died of hunger.' That, for me, made governing the country worthwhile. Other things I hear most often are the expressions of gratitude people have for the opportunity to move up a rung on the social ladder.

Whether it's Prouni, FIES, or Pronatec, people are grateful for what allowed them to improve a little. So I get very sensitive, emotional. Sometimes I cry because it's very gratifying to know that someone can tell you to your face, 'I used to go hungry and because of your...' 'Because I stopped going hungry'.

247 – You made a point of showing up, stopping by the roadside. You'd arrive, there would be a hundred people gathered, you'd get out and at least greet the people, even when the doctors, when the doctor said, "Don't do that because your voice is bad." How was that? 

Squid - That's why I organized the caravan. To have direct contact with the people. In other words: it's not possible to be driving down a road and see 50 people, ten people, and not stop to greet them, at least to say good morning. It's the minimum respect I have to have for the people who came... There are people who traveled 200 kilometers just to be on the side of the road to shake hands. That, for me, is worth as much as a rally with 1 million people because my relationship with society isn't about quantity, it's about quality. It's about seeing people's eyes, feeling people's hearts. One thing that really impresses me is when women, even 80-year-old women, 85-year-old women, say they love me. It's a love of respect, a love of gratitude, you know?

247 – You were received by an unprecedented wave of affection, rarely seen in the country's history. But next week, in a way, you have a meeting with the Judiciary, you have a deposition. How will this contrast be, with Lula, who was embraced by the population, and now has another deposition, all that stress?

Squid - I hope to be embraced by Moro. I'm taking this calmly because I'm confident of my innocence. The Public Prosecutor's Office created a monstrous mothership with that PowerPoint presentation. I'll go there with the same tranquility I had the first time, knowing that I'll tell the truth, even if they don't want to hear it. I'm like in that Zeca Pagodinho song: let life take me where it will.

247 – The internet today shows a different truth than the one that Globo and other media outlets transmit. What message would you send to those watching you now?

Squid - The internet will cause the media to stop thinking they own the truth and to stop acting like they own the truth. Millions of people have access to information and are interacting with it. Little by little, television is realizing that it can no longer produce deceitful television. This caravan proved that it is possible for people to have information without needing Globo Network.

247 – Many people believe that the goal of this witch hunt is to banish you from public life in this country. If that happens, how do you think the Brazilian people will react, and how do you think they should react?

Squid - I cannot say how the people should react. The people must react according to their conscience. I hope that people can inform themselves and follow along to make their own judgment of me and the judge. I have always said the following: what I have to offer the Brazilian people is my innocence. I wouldn't have the courage to look the Brazilian people in the eye and kiss a crying old woman if I were guilty. I will not lie to the Brazilian people.