An interview with a visionary.

In 2002, José Alencar spoke for the first time as vice-president-elect to journalists Leonardo Attuch, Marco Damiani, and Janaína Leite in Brasília. It was a historic statement that anticipated much of what happened in the economy during Lula's government. Alencar advocated for a type of economic growth focused on job creation, based on investments in labor-intensive sectors—not capital-intensive ones. "We are going back to work and production to increase domestic consumption and job creation," the then-future vice-president declared. As it turned out, that is exactly what happened in the following eight years.

Read the full interview below:

 

Question - Will you be the representative of the productive sector in Lula's government?
JOSÉ ALENCAR – No. The vice-president is elected as a representative of society as a whole, and my office will be open to all Brazilians.

But what messages would you send to business leaders about the future?
It's simple. We're going back to work and production to increase domestic consumption and job creation, as well as export growth.

– For the first time, a pact between capital and labor is being drawn up, led by workers. What does this mean?
"It's natural, especially since labor came before capital. This applies to the history of civilizations and also to my history as an entrepreneur. Therefore, this alliance is very welcome. The English use an expression: sweat equity, meaning that capital comes from sweat, from labor. There's nothing incompatible about it."

What conditions are lacking for the resumption of development?
– The government's focus has been on financial management. But this cannot be an end in itself. It is a means, par excellence. Take the case of the Central Bank. Indeed, it must be the guardian of the currency. But a stable currency cannot be a factor of stagnation, but rather of growth. With the high inflation of the past, planning was impossible. Now, it is possible.

 – In the new government's public policies, which sectors would be prioritized?
 – Preferably those that employ more people, that are labor-intensive. And this generally applies to small and medium-sized enterprises. Large enterprises are capital-intensive, not labor-intensive. And since we are a country with scarce capital resources, we must prioritize small businesses. This way, we'll kill two birds with one stone, growing and generating jobs.

– And what would be the role of BNDES?
– The bank is a colossus, an extraordinary institution. In the case of my company, Coteminas, BNDES has laid many bricks in this construction. Therefore, I have appreciation, respect, and gratitude for the bank. But the institution must have open arms throughout the Brazilian territory.

How do I do that?
The bank understands the language of design.
That's correct. It's just that many companies aren't. 
prepared for this. And BNDES can and should facilitate it.
Access to entrepreneurs. Sometimes a questionnaire is enough. What product will be made? What quantity will be produced? How much of the company's own capital will be used? What comes from the bank? A table of sources and uses of resources. The bank has a budget of almost R$ 30 billion. Take 5%: R$ 1,5 billion. With projects of R$ 150, it's possible to create two ventures in every Brazilian municipality. It's a joke. If you say this to someone from BNDES, they'll ridicule you. But I speak from life experience. I challenge anyone to debate with me. The solutions are simple. The complicated ones aren't solutions, they're complications.

– How do you view the nervousness in the financial market?
 – I have absolutely no concern about that, because I don't see it as a market issue. In economics, market laws are just as important as those of nature. But what the speculator is trying to do is different. It violates the very laws of the market.

What are your proposals to boost exports?
– The first thing is equal treatment. For example, our tax system, besides being bureaucratic, has several cascading taxes. Therefore, reform is necessary. Another problem is the cost of capital. The participation of BNDES (Brazilian Development Bank), which has cheaper resources, should be expanded. What doesn't work is putting a 100-kilogram boxer and a 50-kilogram boxer in the same ring. The 50-kilogram boxer may have more technique, but if he takes a punch from the heavyweight, he could even die.

– How do you view Brazil's position in the FTAA?
– What does FTAA mean? Free Trade Area of ​​the Americas. An area without economic borders. For this to be possible, there can be no differentiated treatment. The US, for example, offers enormous agricultural subsidies, which correspond to a greater benefit than tariff protection. FTAA can only be approved if it is FTAA. And to be FTAA, there needs to be equal treatment.

 Are you optimistic about the negotiations?
 – I always start from the principle that people are honest. So, a priori, I believe that the US wants the FTAA, as I said, in an equal way. But they will have to prove that they want it.

 What is your assessment of the international reception to Lula's victory?
– What I've been saying for months has happened. I said that if Lula won, the world would applaud Brazil.

 Could this lead to the reopening of credit lines for Brazil?
 – It's blatantly obvious. If there was such a favorable international reaction, that translates to the market. Unless the market intends to violate its own laws.

What is your view on the agreement with the International Monetary Fund?
– I have nothing against the IMF. I am against those who lead us to the IMF. Ideally, we would never have gone to the Fund. And Brazil has the conditions and potential to grow and build its independence, autonomously and sovereignly. Don't you know the story of Henry Ford?

Tell us.
– He was nearly bankrupt and invited a bank president to visit him. At the end of the conversation, the banker said, “I’ll get you the money, but only if I appoint the CFO.” Ford wanted to know why, and the banker replied that there was a huge amount of waste in the company, especially in inventory. So Ford called his son, appointed him CFO, and said goodbye to the banker. The son was given the task of streamlining inventory, and the loan was no longer needed.

 So, under Lula's government, Brazil will no longer have to knock on the IMF's door?
 – I repeat: ideally, we would never have gone. I wouldn't say that the Fund appoints the finance minister. But the fact is that the IMF tries to guide economic policy.

– One issue that concerns the Fund is state debt. You come from Minas Gerais, where the problem is serious, and you are also the author of a project that reduces the commitment of revenues to interest payments...
– I do, in fact, have a project to reduce the commitment of states' net revenue to debt amortization. This would drop from 13% to 5%. The project was unanimously approved by the Constitution and Justice Committee. Later, in the Economic Affairs Committee, there was an increase from 5% to 7%. But then came the Fiscal Responsibility Law, and the project was taken back to the Constitution and Justice Committee, where it remains.

 But will you resume the project?
– If there is a tax reform, this problem can be solved. For example: part of the corporate income tax has become a contribution on net profit. And, according to the Constitution, a contribution is different from a tax. Its revenue is federal, it is not shared with states and municipalities. We believe that a tax reform can reduce the tax burden on production, allow for the resumption of growth, and lead to a new balance in the federal pact, transforming contributions into taxes and better distributing revenue to states and municipalities.

Lula said that you are not only a comrade, but also a brother. How do you see the new president?
– We have humble origins and far more in common than people realize. He was a union leader, and so was I. In my case, I presided over the Federation of Industries of Minas Gerais. It's an employers' association, but it's a union. In wage negotiations, the interests of workers and employers can be antagonistic. But I have never disrespected a negotiator representing workers, otherwise I would jeopardize my legitimacy.

 So the connection was natural?
 – Of course. Furthermore, Lula's social sensitivity is very much on full display. And for us, who come from modest and humble backgrounds, this is important. There is nothing more important than equal treatment for all children in a school.

Your company offers many benefits to its employees. How should the business owner adapt to the new times?
 The only obligation of a business owner is to make their company strong, prosperous, and independent. A company is a fraction of the economy. And in a strong economy, its companies must also be strong. The business owner has no philanthropic obligation. They have to pay their taxes on time.

– You and Lula both have the last name “Silva” and married women named “Marisa.” Isn’t that quite a coincidence?
 We have to ask our mothers and fathers. Sometimes they've already arranged it.

 What impressed you most about the campaign?
 – What impresses me most is the affection with which Lula is received throughout Brazil. This increases our responsibility. People's hope is enormous.

 Will Lula surpass Juscelino?
 – Each one has their own characteristics, and it's too early to compare. But there's no need to surpass them, just to come close, because Juscelino was one of the best, if not the best, presidents in Brazilian republican history.