"The government can't do everything. The president of the Republic can't do everything. He [Bolsonaro] thinks he can, and he's getting a rude awakening," analyzes Kotscho, who has received the Esso Journalism Prize four times – one of the most important awards in the category in Brazil.
With over 50 years in the profession, the journalist says he is impressed by the president's lack of preparation, arrogance, and presumptuous attitude. According to Kotscho, the retired captain "treats everything like a war." Check it out:
Brasil de Fato: In general, how do you assess the relationship between the Bolsonaro government and the press?
Ricardo Kotscho: They attack certain journalists, certain media outlets, and choose a few "friends" with whom they always speak. Since Bolsonaro was elected, television channels like Record, SBT, and Bandeirantes have been turning on their cameras whenever he wants. He says whatever he wants, and they only set him up for publicity. Because of this, the president has become accustomed to it. That's not the role of a journalist.
He has his “enemies,” which are the “real” reporters – who, unfortunately, are a minority in Brazil. And then there are those guys who live with power, whatever that power may be: they want to be well-positioned at the table of power. Today [March 13, 2019] Bolsonaro had a meeting with journalists, a second meeting, but these are people handpicked by him. It's only the people his team trusts.
What does the stance adopted towards the press say about the government itself?
That's the philosophy of the [Bolsonaro] government.
The government is permanently at war. It has allies and enemies – that applies to everything. The military was prepared for war, including this captain who is president today. You look at his face, and he's always cornered, always ready to shoot. So much so that his campaign had the "little gun," and today we saw what that little gun thing led to [the interview was conducted on the day of...] Suzano massacre].
His and Moro's decree to allow four guns per person hasn't even been approved yet, but... FSP They published an article showing that you can buy a gun however you want, with a shoddy course. Everyone who wants a gun already has one, and now they're going to make it easier.
This week, Bolsonaro attacked a reporter from Estadão, incited a lynching on social media. And, in the same post, attacked her father.
Her father is Chico Otávio, one of Brazil's great reporters, who has done many stories about the militias in Rio and who lives under threat. The day before yesterday [March 11], the Estadão She published an editorial breaking with Bolsonaro, blasting Bolsonaro, and then he got angry and decided to do this thing against the reporter from... Estadão – He took advantage of the situation and brought his father into it. It's all based on that.
It's a government of vengeance, of wickedness; it has nothing to build.
What are the long-term consequences of this?
Everything that is being done is aimed at destroying the rights that people have, all the social rights of recent years.
Brazil has improved dramatically. If you compare the eight years of FHC's government with the eight years of Lula's, that's 16 years practically without major crises, and the country grew significantly in the social sphere. I've been in journalism for over 50 years, and we've never had such good 16 years for the majority of the population. No one can take that away, but this government is in power, it hasn't even been 100 days, and it's destroying everything.
It already started with Temer, with the labor reform, and now there will be nothing left with the pension reform. They want to sell everything. It seems they took Lula's government program, the advances of Lula's government, and said: "Let's end this here."
How do you view the stance of the government spokesperson, General Otávio Rêgo Barros?
I can't understand where they found that figure. He talks and talks and then says, "Now, if anyone wants to ask a question...". Then, they ask two or three questions, he wraps things up, turns his back and says, "Peace and blessings." He looks like a pastor!
He's a mix of general and pastor. It's impossible to understand.
Were the communication problems you're pointing out already present during the election campaign?
To give you an idea, Bolsonaro ran his entire campaign without an official press secretary. Who was his press secretary?
In the old days, every candidate had a press secretary. You knew who you had to talk to. He didn't. It was just him and his sons there. That has carried over into government.
Now, he's surrounded himself with generals on all sides. There are more military personnel in the government today than I experienced during the military dictatorship. There have never been so many military personnel in the government, not even when the general-presidents ruled Brazil. Never.
The treatment of the press during the military dictatorship wasn't as terrible as what's happening now, or on inauguration dayIt was a horrible thing. They left them without food or water.
In this sense, do you believe that the government has manipulated data and hidden information?
Let's use the right word: lie. He lies daily.
There's a survey that shows that, in 60 days of government, he lied 82 times. He lies just like [Donald] Trump, exactly the same. He gives out wrong information…
This story about the girl from EstadãoFor example, he took and edited one of her speeches. He does anything, just like he did during the campaign. The government so far has been an extension of that campaign, which was the dirtiest in Brazilian history.
Sérgio Moro orchestrated a whole scheme to remove Lula from the election and then arranged to become a minister. This already demonstrates the institutional chaos in the country.
Was all of this expected, or is the Bolsonaro government worse than imagined?
I'll say one thing, and I can say this because I lived through it: this is the worst moment in Brazil. Not just for the press, for us journalists, but for the country.
Even during the worst moments of the dictatorship, you had very strong opposition leaders, you had combative journalists, including within the mainstream press. We fought, within the mainstream press, to say something and get around the censorship. We weren't complacent.
At that time, I was in Estadão And he worked as if censorship didn't exist. The news editor's order was this: "You do your story, the other guy [the censor] comes at night and cuts it. We're not going to cut it beforehand." There was no self-censorship.
There aren't as many independent, combative journalists anymore. The new generation of journalists, especially in Brasília, are very close to those in power. It's what I call "ready-made journalism." This has been the case since Lava Jato.
They receive leaks, tapes, documents… it's a piece of cake! They have lunch and dinner with those in power. But there are exceptions, it's good to remember that there are exceptions.
And you only have to look at the story of that guy [Bolsonaro] to see that it was going to end like this. That business of making gun gestures, of putting children on his lap and making gun gestures…
As journalists, we need to be balanced. I never believed in this business of neutrality, impartiality; it doesn't exist. But I always thought there has to be balance. Even as a press officer during Lula's campaigns, we had colleagues who sang the... jingle On the stage. I wasn't singing because I was working, as a journalist.
I know how to separate things, but it's reaching a point where I can't anymore. I'm out of words, I don't have the swear words, to describe what's happening. It's unbelievable. Young people have no idea of the gravity of the current situation in Brazil. I don't know how it will end, but it won't end well.
How do you analyze the evidence of militia involvement with the federal government and the death of Marielle Franco in Rio de Janeiro?
I wrote in my blog, Kotscho's Basket...regarding the political scheme protecting the militias. In Rio, any novice reporter knows about it – who they are, how it works, everyone knows. Chico Otávio has already done five hundred stories about it. [Former Public Security Minister Raul] Jungmann, who talks and talks and says nothing, but let slip [at the end of the year] that they already had more information about this scheme. So much so that they called in the Federal Police to investigate the Rio police investigation.
Everything there is in cahoots. The Military Police, the Civil Police, the Judiciary, the Court of Auditors…
Sérgio Cabral didn't come out of nowhere. The Bolsonaros have always been linked to militias. I published a study conducted by the Analysis Institute, listing 21 facts that link the Bolsonaro clan to the militias. These are facts. It's not opinion, or anything like that.
Returning to the topic of communication, what were the guidelines for media relations when you were in charge of communications?
From the very beginning and in every way, we sought to democratize information. We didn't give scoops [exclusive information] to anyone, we didn't give privileges to anyone. It could be a big reporter from Globo or one from Rádio Itatiaia, there was no difference. Everyone was accommodated.
In the press office, there were reporters covering the Presidential Palace – about 50 to 60 of them – who were there full-time. Including technicians, the people who organize press conferences, the sound crew, there were about 50 people. And from the beginning I made this clear: equal treatment for everyone.
I used to work with the door open, and everyone could come into my office. Sometimes Lula would be there chatting, and people would come in and talk to him too. It was a very good relationship.
And how did Lula address the issue of the president as a public figure?
I remember the prejudice I had against Lula because he was a lathe operator. Lula knew exactly what his role as president was. He commanded respect and respected everyone. You can't recall a single instance where Lula disrespected the role of president of the Republic. He understood his responsibilities.
This guy [Bolsonaro] doesn't know what the Presidency of the Republic or the Constitution is. He knows nothing. He spent 30 years in the Chamber of Deputies and never did anything.
He was a folkloric figure. Nobody paid attention to him except when he threatened to hit someone or spouted nonsense. Didn't the journalists know? Didn't they know who this guy was? Why did he leave the Army?
Just look at his criminal record. Why was he released at 33? Why was he arrested? And [the problem] isn't the fact that he was arrested, because there are people who are political prisoners. He [Bolsonaro] was arrested because he threatened to throw bombs at military barracks, at Cedae [Rio de Janeiro State Water and Sewage Company]. He's an extremely dangerous individual, and they're handing a country like Brazil over to him.