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"The poor and black are the main victims of the prison system," says scholar.

In an interview with Brasil de Fato MG, social scientist and professor at PUC Minas, Robson Sávio, points out that the number of prisoners in the state has multiplied sevenfold: it grew by 624% between 2005 and 2012; and prison overcrowding is around 111% in Minas Gerais; "In these precarious conditions, with broken family and social ties, delivered to the factions that control the prisons, there is no question of 'rehabilitation'. The rates of criminal recidivism in the country reach 80%, and Minas Gerais is no exception," he says; for him, the first private prison in the country, managed by a PPP (Public-Private Partnership), located in Ribeirão das Neves (MG), "serves as a kind of pretty picture to justify the privatization frenzy that surrounds the Minas Gerais and Brazilian prison system"; read the full interview.

In an interview with Brasil de Fato MG, social scientist and professor at PUC Minas, Robson Sávio, points out that the number of prisoners in the state has multiplied sevenfold: it grew by 624% between 2005 and 2012; and prison overcrowding is around 111% in Minas Gerais; "In these precarious conditions, with broken family and social ties, delivered to the factions that control the prisons, there is no question of 'rehabilitation'. The rates of criminal recidivism in the country reach 80%, and Minas Gerais is no exception," he says; for him, the first private prison in the country, managed by a PPP (Public-Private Partnership), located in Ribeirão das Neves (MG), "serves as a kind of pretty picture to justify the privatization frenzy that surrounds the Minas Gerais and Brazilian prison system"; read the full interview (Photo: Gisele Federicce)

By Wallace Oliveira, from Brasil de Fato MG

The prison population in Brazil has already surpassed 600 people. Every day, a prisoner is murdered. In 2016 alone, there were more than 370 violent deaths in these establishments, according to public data. In recent days, in Amazonas and Roraima, the country witnessed the largest massacre in prison units since the Carandiru massacre. However, governments, the media, and the majority of the population insist on pointing to measures that, applied over decades, have already proven unsuccessful as solutions: increased prisons, punishment, and violence promoted by the State, in a model that selectively affects the poorest, black, and young people from the periphery. To discuss this issue, Brasil de Fato MG spoke with social scientist Robson Sávio, coordinator of the Center for Sociopolitical Studies at PUC Minas (NESP) and full member of the Brazilian Forum on Public Security. Sávio is also a member of the Minas Gerais State Council for Human Rights and deputy coordinator of the Truth Commission in Minas Gerais.

Brasil de Fato MG: What can be said about the prisons currently operating in Minas Gerais? What are the conditions of the people in these prisons? Are they suitable for rehabilitation?

Robson Sávio: The prison population is growing absurdly in Brazil. Between 2005 and 2012, therefore in seven years, this increase was 74%, while the Brazilian population grew only 5,3% in the same period, according to IBGE (Brazilian Institute of Geography and Statistics). In Minas Gerais, the number of prisoners multiplied sevenfold: it grew 624% in that period. Today, the state has almost 70 prisoners, and more than 40% do not even have a final sentence (the so-called pre-trial detainees). The overcrowding of the Minas Gerais prison system is around 111%. Furthermore, we have structural problems, such as the issue of the qualification of prison officers. With the exception of prisoners housed in the Associations for the Protection and Assistance of Convicts (APACs), the situation in the traditional system reproduces the chaos of the Brazilian prison system. In these precarious conditions, with broken family and social ties, delivered to the factions that control the prisons, there is no question of "rehabilitation". The rates of criminal recidivism in the country reach 80%, and Minas Gerais is no exception.

Brasil de Fato MG: The country's first private prison, managed through a PPP (Public-Private Partnership), is located in Ribeirão das Neves (MG). The model was announced as a way to promote security, efficiency, and dignified conditions for inmates. Similar justifications appear in PLS 513/2011, regarding the contracting of public-private partnerships to build and manage penal establishments. What is your view on this model?

Robson Sávio: The prison managed by the PPP (Public-Private Partnership) in Neves serves as a kind of pretty picture to justify the privatization frenzy that surrounds the Minas Gerais and Brazilian prison system. There is no overcrowding; prisoners are selectively chosen because they have to work. There are conditions for work, medical, legal, and social assistance. Now, if these same conditions, stipulated by the Penal Execution Law (and not fulfilled by the State), were implemented in the prisons of the traditional system, we would not have these places transformed into headquarters of organized crime. Furthermore, the prisoners in the private prison in Neves are monitored by state-of-the-art electronic systems; all to control the prison unit and prevent escapes and rebellions. And the cost is much higher than the traditional system. In other words, the state invests heavily in its calling card to justify the privatization of prisons and leaves a huge number of prisoners destitute. As we see an expansion of the prison industry with the increasing density of the prison population – and many wealthy individuals and companies profit from this (including from the chaos and lack of state control over the system) – private prisons are becoming a new goldmine for capitalists who only think about money; never about people. The carnage in Manaus proves that outsourced prisons tend to further complicate the prison issue.

Brasil de Fato MG: Last week, Temer and the Minister of Justice, Alexandre de Moraes, announced measures to alleviate the crisis in the prison system. The main action would be an expenditure of over R$ 400 million to build new prisons and increase security in existing ones. What is your assessment of these measures?

Robson Sávio: There is a prison machine in the country. A vengeful and ill-informed society believes that prison is the cure for all crimes; the judiciary (whose judges, prosecutors, and lawyers are not even familiar with the reality of prisons) acts selectively, filling the jails with drug users and small-time drug traffickers and petty thieves – who will be easy prey for the criminal organizations that control the system. Moreover, of the four countries with the largest prison populations in the world, Brazil is the only one that has increased its number of prisoners since 2008. This data reveals a clear preference by the Brazilian judiciary for mass incarceration and that the judges who imprison do not feel responsible for the tragedy that is our penitentiary system. Finally, the executive branch collaborates with this prison machine, either through the selective actions of the police (who arrest many and do it poorly) or by failing to take the necessary measures for efficient management and control of the system. Building more prisons under these conditions only contributes to the growth of criminal factions, the prison industry, and insecurity (which enriches many people and institutions), and solves absolutely nothing regarding the current or future situation.

Brasil de Fato MG: When discussing the fight against crime in Brazil, why do so many people prefer revenge and punishment to rehabilitation?

Robson Sávio: We have a punitive culture that begins at home, spreads to interpersonal and social relationships, passes through formal education, and reinforces the belief that punishment is better than prevention, negotiation, conflict mediation, etc. Furthermore, our educational model does not educate for solidarity, responsibility, or citizenship. It's every man for himself and God for all. Under these conditions, with a highly selective justice system, violent police, and public authorities lacking credibility, it seems the only solution is to try in every way to get ahead and hope that the law only applies to the other person who, when wrong, should be severely punished. In general, we all think that the other is dangerous and that we and ours are the good guys. It happens that the other also thinks this way about us. Who, then, enters the criminal justice system? First, the entry criterion is income; second, ethnicity; and third, access to justice. Thus, poor, black, and young people from the periphery without lawyers are the main victims of this system. Those who have good lawyers, are white, and middle class, take advantage of this deliberately confusing legislation with numerous appeals and will, in most cases, manage to escape the traps of the system of punishment and social revenge, embodied in the prison system.

Brasil de Fato MG: What alternatives can we consider to the current prison system?

Robson Sávio: These are medium- and long-term measures: separating members of criminal factions to prevent further massacres; reforming our police and justice systems; controlling prisons; removing convicted prisoners from police stations; separating dangerous prisoners from others; expanding prison capacity (not by creating more prisons, but by freeing up spaces occupied by pretrial detainees); encouraging community participation in rehabilitation processes; expanding drug prevention programs, offering opportunities to vulnerable youth outside prisons and treatment for addicts within prisons; creating support and guidance programs for released prisoners; intensifying the application of alternative sentences and measures, with efficient oversight by public authorities; offering legal assistance in the cases of convicts; keeping convicts in their place of origin, aiming to prevent the disruption of family and social ties; providing all prisoners with final sentences with opportunities for work and education. The undertaking is enormous. But it needs to be faced. The rest is just empty talk.

Source: Brasil de Fato MG, edition 168, January 13, 2017, page 11.