Cid: It's time to discuss the quality of education.

By Paulo Moreira Leite

Minister Cid Gomes gave a lengthy interview to 247 last week, marked by difficult moments for the Dilma government: days after Eduardo Cunha's landslide victory in the race for Speaker of the House, which was followed by a Datafolha poll showing a huge drop in the president's approval rating.

Repeating a behavior already demonstrated by his brother Ciro Gomes, who displayed absolute loyalty to Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva when he faced difficult times in his first term, Cid mocks the opposition's movements that speak of the end of the government ("My father used to say that whoever makes a prediction cannot escape their own desire"), criticizes the "programmatic poverty" of his adversaries, and says that he supports the adjustment of spending and investments at the beginning of the government. "I did the same thing when I was governor of Ceará and when I was mayor of Sobral. I was re-elected both times."    

As Minister of Education in a government that adopted the motto "Educating Nation," Cid Gomes began his administration at high speed in Brasília. With a closing date set for March 2nd, by the beginning of last week a public consultation on the role of school principals had already reached 1,3 million accesses on the Ministry of Education's website. Next, the ministry opened a debate – in a new public consultation – on FIES, a scholarship system for low-income students. Later, there will be a consultation on ENEM, the high school student exam, which Cid Gomes plans to transform into an online exam.

"I believe that good ideas come from where you least expect them," says the minister, to justify the reliance on public consultations – online.

Read his interview below:

247 – After the defeat to Eduardo Cunha in the election for president of the Chamber of Deputies, the opposition in Brasília says that the government is ending before it even begins...

CID GOMES – My father used to say that anyone who makes a prediction can't escape their own desires. I think that's what's happening here. You can hardly escape your own will, your own opinion. The government's opponents, who want a cataclysm, end up seeing what they want to see. They're hoping for a serious crisis. That's not how I see it. In the election for president of the Chamber of Deputies, there was a dispute between two candidates from the base, and now it's necessary to reach an understanding. Everyone has their institutional commitments. I even admit that I might also be rooting for something according to my opinion, but I think there's a great exaggeration in this view of the opposition. I've always rooted for Brazil. I've always seen politics as an instrument to improve the country and not as an end in itself. The role of the opposition cannot be this, wanting things to end in order to get to the government.

247 – And what should this role be?

CID – The role should be to have projects for the economy, for education, for health, and, even having an ideology, whether right or left, to support measures that can be useful for the country. Normally, after an election, one should give a vote of confidence – essentially, nothing more than a vote of confidence in the voter – to allow those who won at the polls to begin working. But that's not what the opposition is doing. It's acting in a very passionate way. Brazil is experiencing this climate.

247 – Where does this behavior come from?

CID – Honestly, this stems from the poverty of our leadership. Spiritual poverty, and especially programmatic poverty. We know that most opposition leaders don't suffer from material poverty. It's programmatic poverty that leads them to root for the worse, the better, when they should calm down a bit. But I don't see any proposals for the problems they themselves point out.

247 – For Ceará, the crisis at Petrobras has resulted in the abandonment of the project to build a refinery in the state. What is your view on this?

CID – We all have our instincts, like everyone else. My instincts tell me that Graça Foster is a serious person. But as a leader of my state, I am very upset by the way a commitment to Ceará was broken. I am convinced that building a refinery in Ceará is not only a necessity for the state, but for Brazil. The refinery was initially conceived to export fuels. That would already be a great investment. But Brazil has grown so much, the domestic market has expanded so much since then, that it has become a necessity for the domestic market. Today, Brazil exports crude oil and imports diesel and gasoline. For a long time, this situation was, from a financial point of view, unfavorable to Petrobras. Although the company never stopped generating profits – and it's always worth remembering that – these gains were smaller because the price paid abroad could not be passed on to the domestic market. Today the situation has changed, the price of oil is different. But the refinery is still needed. When the economy starts growing again – and my prediction is that this could begin to happen in 2016 – this will become even clearer.   

247 – You know the new government leader, José Guimarães, who is from Ceará and has just taken over from Henrique Fontana. What is the advantage?

CID – Henrique Fontana is a great politician, well-prepared. But Guimarães is more dynamic, he has many connections in Congress. His presence in the leadership will give a new rhythm to the government's work among parliamentarians.

247 – A Datafolha poll showed a dramatic drop in government approval...

CID – These numbers show the challenge the government faces. They don't constitute a definitive evaluation, but rather a first impression. I don't dispute the research, but I remind you that in real life, no government is evaluated in a single month, but rather throughout its entire term.

247 – You've been making some moves at the start of your tenure at the Ministry of Education. Right after Carnival, the first public consultation, conducted online, about public school principals, will end; it already had 1,3 million hits. Then you'll start another consultation, about the ENEM (National High School Exam). You also want to discuss FIES (Student Financing Fund). Let's talk about it one step at a time. Why prioritize attention to school principals?

CID – Because it is the best initiative we can take, given the conditions we have, to produce a quick and efficient improvement in public schools.

247 – What do you mean?

CID – It's true that, if we lived in an ideal world, I would be able to spend R$ 9.000 per year on each student in the public school system. But I don't have that. We can spend R$ 2.000 per year. If I could, we would be paying R$ 8.000 per month to each of our 2 million teachers. But we also don't have the means to do that, increasing our expenses overnight. We comply with the rule that mandates adjusting teachers' salaries every year, but we obviously cannot make such a large leap. In this initial phase, my plan is to invest in school principals. 

247 – Why?

CID – Because it's proven that, among the various factors that help improve education, which is a rather complex world, the school principal often makes a decisive difference. Take two schools in the same socioeconomic conditions, in the same neighborhood, under the same state or municipal administration, and you might find different students, with different performance levels, who will have different histories. If you look for the cause of this, you will very likely find different principals, with unequal preparation, with varying levels of dedication. We want, initially, to invest in this area. The public consultation will bring ideas, comments, and observations that may be useful for intervention in this crucial area. 

247 – Do you believe that public consultations can yield truly useful suggestions?

CID – I have no doubt. I believe in that saying that good ideas often arise where you least expect them. I confirmed this when I was mayor of Sobral, my city. We were building a reservoir at the entrance to Sobral when a citizen I didn't even know stopped me in the street to give me an idea. He asked why I didn't take advantage of the reservoir's foundations to build a second bridge there. It would cost much less and help alleviate traffic at the entrance to Sobral. I asked our engineers to do the calculations, and they concluded that the second bridge was possible, and we would spend much less than if we had to redo everything. We carried out the project suggested by a citizen who stopped me in the street, imagine that, and it was a tremendous success.

247 – You are also talking about making changes to FIES, a system that exchanges taxes owed by private schools to the State for scholarships intended to help students from poorer families pay for higher education. What are your plans?

CID – We know that FIES is an absolute success. Min

247 – What do you mean?

CID – We need to debate criteria and concepts to continue funding these studies. We are not questioning any scholarships already secured, any enrollments already made. What we want is to debate the future. Let's start this discussion. For example: should the Ministry of Education continue sponsoring enrollments in institutions that have a zero rating in the ministry's own evaluation criteria?

247 – What do you think?

CID – In my personal opinion, the minimum grade for a university to be part of this program should be 5. I think that at that level you have confidence in what you are doing. But that's a personal view, from the minister, not the ministry. This should be debated. It's not my point of view that will prevail. We want to build a consensus, based on the broadest possible debate.

247 – You also talk about changing the ENEM exam, which, in the future, could be an online exam...

CID – Let's start this discussion as well. The public consultation on the ENEM (Brazilian National High School Exam) will begin right after Carnival and will gather suggestions that allow for future improvements. I know it may seem strange to many people, but we believe it's possible to have an online exam where each student is examined individually, safely, for both themselves and other students. I think we can make the ENEM a less stressful event than it is today, without altering any of the benefits already achieved. We want to discuss this in the public consultation, in a process where every question that arises can be explained and clarified. One difference with the online ENEM is the cost. The current exam has logistics that involve expenses of 1 billion reais per year. Online, the expenses would be infinitely lower, without compromising the quality of the tests.  

247 – You have spoken quite a bit about costs and expenses. What is your view on the adjustments the government is making?

CID – I support the adjustment and I think it's a measure that should occur at the beginning of every government. I did it when I was mayor of my city and when I was governor of Ceará. I succeeded myself in those places and made adjustments between my first and second terms. It's normal. All over the world, people have a tendency towards comfort, which leads to relaxation, in any area of ​​human activity. In many homes, it's customary to leave the light on, the air conditioning running, when nobody is using it, isn't it? Imagine what happens in the government machine when public funds are spent. I think that under these conditions, adjustments can be necessary and beneficial. At the end of terms that began with adjustments, I always had the approval of the voters. This is the criterion that matters for public figures.