The goal of the pension reform is to hand it over to the banks, says CGTB.

Juca Guimarães, Brazil of Fact - Ten trade union centers in the country, together with the main popular movements in the countryside and the city, are calling for the National Day of Struggle Against the Pension Reform of the Bolsonaro government (PSL) next Friday (22).

In an interview with Brasil de Fato, the president of the General Workers' Central (CGTB), Ubiraci Dantas Oliveira, known as Bira, criticizes the government's maneuvers to approve the reform and points out the main problems that the changes will cause the country.

The proposal eliminates the pay-as-you-go system with three sources of revenue (government, companies, and workers) in favor of an individual capitalization model. The management of contributions will be in the hands of banks, which will charge an administration fee. The sole source of funds will be worker contributions.

Another change is the end of retirement by age and by length of service. Both modalities will be replaced by a single rule: for most workers, the minimum age will be 65 for men and 62 for women, with at least 20 years of contributions. However, under these conditions, the retiree will receive approximately 60% of their average income. To receive the full amount, it will be necessary to complete 40 years of contributions.

Check out the best moments:

Brasil de Fato: Does Brazil really need a pension reform?

Beer: It's not necessary. The government keeps talking about a deficit, about a hole in Social Security, and it's a big lie. It's in surplus; there's no shortage of money. They take 30% from the revenue [of Social Security, which includes revenue and expenses for the INSS - National Institute of Social Security] by decoupling resources that come from COFINS, CSLL, PIS-Pasep, and lotteries. This adds up to more than R$ 113,4 billion. And then there are the tax breaks, because businesses, particularly international ones, pay nothing to the INSS or pay very little. That's almost R$ 141 billion in tax breaks. Besides that, there's something very serious: tax evasion. Those who should pay the INSS simply don't. There was a CPI [Parliamentary Commission of Inquiry] in the Senate, and the conclusion was that large companies and banks owe R$ 450 billion to Social Security.

But the government also says that the crisis will only end if there is reform.

It is true that the economic policy the government is imposing on the country, which is one of recession and unemployment, is the so-called neoliberal policy. This increases unemployment and reduces tax revenue, but even so, Social Security is in surplus.

What is the objective of Bolsonaro's proposed constitutional amendment?

It's handing over social security to the banks. It's the capitalization system, which in Chile substantially increased the number of suicides among the elderly because they had no way to support themselves.

And what is the main problem with this reform?

She turns her back on the people. Look, minimum retirement age of 62 and 65: what will happen? People will retire at the time of their death. There are people who start at 16. If it were just the 35 years of contributions, as is right and fair, it would be possible to retire. Now they want 65 years of age. Those who start at 16, which is the case for the poor, won't be able to. But the rich, the middle class: what do they do? First they graduate, get a master's degree, and then go to work. The poor don't. I started working at 14 and I still haven't retired. Imagine what will happen to the other members of the Brazilian nation? This is a crime.

How would Social Security be handed over to the banks?

It's all about capitalization. Here's the thing: they hand everything over to the banks, the employees alone pay [the contributions], employers and the government no longer pay. It all falls on the employees' shoulders. And, in addition, the retirement age will increase from 15 years to 20 years [under the minimum age rule]. Generally speaking, there are no longer workers who stay in one job for 40 or 50 years. The reality is that people spend long periods between one formal job and another. It becomes much more difficult to retire.

Is the situation even more difficult for female teachers?

Yes, the proposal increases the minimum retirement age for female teachers by ten years. I want to see who can manage to teach for 40 years. They'll keep paying into social security, but they won't be able to retire. And there's also the cruelty towards rural workers who will have the same minimum retirement age as urban workers and will have to contribute R$300 to social security. There are many maneuvers in this reform to harm the population.

Which maneuvers?

The main goal is to remove the rules of Social Security from the Constitution. They're taking everything out of the Constitution and relegating it to supplementary laws. That way, they'll need fewer votes [in Congress] to make any changes that harm the working class. This reform opens the door to much worse reforms in the future.

Are social protection laws at risk?

Obviously. That's what's at stake. The Speaker of the House, who supports the reform [Rodrigo Maia], said that it's possible to work until you're 80 years old. I want to see his mother, his father, or him working until they're 80 carrying sugarcane on their backs, doing construction work. Retirement has to mean the following: I've worked my whole life, now I want to spend my last years traveling and having fun. These guys want us to die, they want us not to exist. They have no love for humanity. It's no coincidence that they're always carrying guns, promoting hatred against people. That's the scenario this kind of citizen wants for Brazil, that's why he's taking everything away. It's labor reform, it's pension reform.

And what are the consequences?

Without the current social security system, the recession will deepen, the crisis will worsen. Unemployment and violence will increase. We will lose industries, and there will be no scientific or technological development in the country.